In Canada, A Two-to-Three Year Wait...

...for even getting a family doctor.

Bella, this Bud's for you.

by Brett Rogers, 7/13/2009 6:45:48 PM
Permalink

And this one's for you....

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html

Posted by Bella, 7/14/2009 11:19:44 AM

Hi Bella. Anything coming from Michael Moore should be taken with a shot of whiskey (and probably an antibiotic).

I get my info straight from the horses mouth, friends who live in Ottawa. Unless you happen to hit the right hospital on the right day, you wait. And when it comes to non-emergency care, such as an MRI, seeing an orthopedic specialist, even cancer treatment, you wait, and wait.

Our system isn't perfect by any means but it is the best in the world. Letting government have any control over it will screw us all.

Posted by Pale Rider, 7/14/2009 11:56:36 AM

At the end of the day, it's my responsibility to vet the sources of information before me.

I have the word of Candians I know, like Estelle, who commented here recently about her similar problems with her knee.

http://www.beatcanvas.com/content_view.asp?id=1570

Or I can go with people I don't know who document to promote their beliefs.

Personally, I'd rather go with actual experience. More credible, less filter.

Here's the tragedy of this, Bella. Knowing the issues you've had in the past with your own health, I'm glad that our health care system was able to provide you with a timely solution - on more than one occasion. After hearing the experiences of people I know and seeing the real life people who've experienced socialized medicine, you advocate unfortunately for a system that would have allowed your health to diminish, and would diminish the health of others as well for the lack of health care providers attracted to a socialized system. The reduction of providers after socialization is well-documented. So while your heart advocates for greater access - cool and noble - in practice you advocate for less access.

That, and Medicaid / Medicare are completed screwed up, those being government-managed systems, and the track record there discourages any trust a person might have in any government-run system.

Posted by Brett Rogers (http://www.beatcanvas.com), 7/14/2009 1:50:10 PM

I, too, get my word not just from a former VP of a major insurance company (interesting that all PR managed to notice was Michael Moore :->), but from friends living in London, and my own elderly parents, who have been/were dealing with Medicare for the past few years. My mother has had absolutely no problems, never waits for attention, and sees whoever she wishes, and my father, who had leukemia, saw a plethora of specialists, and received chemo all with lightning quick speed. I witnessed first hand the care and attention he received, and it was exemplary. Their daughter, on the other hand, has to appeal to her insurance company for a 'non-routine' blood test that her doctor ordered, and won't get anything covered if it's 'out of network'. Access is already limited, bureacrats already stand in between my doctor and my care. If you'll recall, in my own health care experience, while they provided me with timely solutions, they also successfully bankrupted me. And I'm actually one of the lucky ones in this screwed up system, because I have insurance.

From my experience working in human services, I can tell you that many providers are quite anxious to take medicare/medicaid because they at least have a chance of getting paid something...with insurance companies/huge deductables or the uninsured, it can often be a crap shoot, especially when dealing with mental illness claims.

PR, sadly, while the US is doing great at a lot of things, we do not have the best health care system in the world, just the most profitable, which contrary to popular belief, is not the same thing. The WHO ranks the US at #37--France ranks #1 and the UK at #18.

Posted by Bella, 7/15/2009 10:15:45 AM

Wow... where to begin.

My mother, a lifelong Democrat, is a licensed therapist and accepts whichever it is - Medicaid/Medicare. We have lunch at least monthly, and I routinely hear from her that she spends more time filing and refiling the inevitably rejected govt paperwork to their satisfaction than she does counseling her clients. She accepts people who use the govt program because it helps them to pay for their care and she wants to care for her clients, but the massive inefficiency of the bureaucracy not only reduces what she can collect, but it also reduces her income per hour because it sometimes takes up her entire Sunday to redo and refile the paperwork. Ask your acquaintances about that experience, if they actually fill out the paperwork. Might be someone else in the office who has to deal with that.

You complain that your health issues bankrupted you, though you do have your health. The solution, in your mind, is socialized health care, so that your personal circumstances don't inconvenience your personal economic agenda. But it's okay with you to inconvenience my childrens' future economic prospects by burdening them with trillions in debt to afford you your solution. So pardon my bear claws while I protect them from you. You don't have the right steal from my children for your convenience. You pretend to care for people, but all you really care about is yourself and what you can take from others for your own convenience. Not once on this web site have you ever asserted why it's within your right to burden my children with your debt, and the reason is that you can't make that argument without sounding selfish. The truth is that you are selfish and refuse to take ownership of your own life, but want to make it the responsiblity of everyone else. Government provides you with a safety wall so that you're not personally stealing from my children, instead you outsource that to politicians who can do it on your behalf.

So I will fight you, and people like you, with everything I have because you don't care one whit about my kids. But I sure do. Go be thankful for your health and, in my opinion, you should be thankful to be responsible for your own life and pay your way out of the bankruptcy your health caused you. Unfortunate, but temporary, and you're alive and well, which is a huge blessing.

Posted by Brett Rogers (http://www.beatcanvas.com), 7/15/2009 10:47:13 AM

I don't want to put responsiblility on anybody else, I merely want to introduce a gov't competitor into the system and insure those who aren't so there is at least some safety net for those who can't afford it. Apparently you don't care about the 8.5 million children who are uninsured. But wait, I forgot---they aren't YOUR kids. I guess poor kids and poor people don't have any value, may as well let them suffer.

So has your generalizing, ignorance and self-righteousness lost you anybody but me?

Posted by Bella, 7/15/2009 11:41:08 AM

Name one instance where a child who sought health care in this system wasn't granted health care in this system. Cite it.

Posted by Brett Rogers (http://www.beatcanvas.com), 7/15/2009 11:44:20 AM

And by the way, you might have missed this, which I wrote long ago:

http://www.beatcanvas.com/content_view.asp?id=877

I believe that health care should be free in America for children. Always have.

I don't believe that health care should be free for adults. You do. And you have yet to provide a reason for why my children - and the children for whom you supposedly advocate - should pay for your health care to protect you from bankruptcy.

Posted by Brett Rogers (http://www.beatcanvas.com), 7/15/2009 11:51:23 AM

I never said it should be free to everyone. If you had been paying attention you would have noticed that. I did the responsible thing and paid for insurance, and still had insanely high bills...and I WAS one of the lucky ones. I know that. I see no reason for people not to pay into a system if they are able, but there are those who are not able. I know you don't believe there are any adults who fall into that category, but you are wrong.

And you want a case of a child denied care in this system. She was 17, but that still qualifies as a child to me.

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/27/business/fi-livertransplant27

Posted by Bella, 7/15/2009 12:10:59 PM

That is the problem. Health care is not "free" to anyone. Someone has to pay for it. Why do I as a parent have to pay for everyone else? Here in NY the state has Child Healthcare Plus, so kids are covered (no need for a federal program). Unfortunately it's also one of the reasons the state is in the toilet financially. Someone has to pay for it.

I for one do not want government pinheads deciding anything related to my health care choices. For proof how the government handles huge social programs just look at the mess that is Social Security (should be called Social Insecurity).

If the government wants to offer up a group insurance plan funded only by those who want in on it, I'm all for it. Enjoy and best of luck. Just stop reaching in my pocket.

Posted by Pale Rider, 7/15/2009 1:05:34 PM

By the way, I only mentioned the bankruptcy to make a point at how exhorbitant health care costs are. A huge percentage of bankruptcies occur due to medical costs. I don't now, nor do I ever, expect anybody to protect me from bankruptcy but me. Please don't tell me what I think.

Posted by Bella, 7/15/2009 1:11:05 PM

Just a general comment on something I've been thinking about more and more lately. This country needs a divorce. The ideological divide has grown so wide there really is no way to reconcile. Let the socialists go their own way, the capitalists theirs. Divide it up at the Mississippi. To the east its the United Socialist States of America. To the west the old USA.

Posted by Pale Rider, 7/15/2009 1:14:41 PM

Well, PR, it's your choice of pinheads. The pinhead at the insurance company who wants to cut costs and make a profit for his company's shareholders, or a pinhead who is working for the government. :-)

Posted by Bella, 7/15/2009 1:15:45 PM

I'll take the pinhead at the insurance company who has a stake in the game. Let the market drive the insurance company. If they are that bad and do not provide critical services, they will eventually get driven out of business. I trust they will manage the $$ side of if much better than the government, who will essentially ration healthcare.

If government really wants to help people out they should make ALL health care related costs tax free, then toss in tax credits based on family size.

Posted by Pale Rider, 7/15/2009 1:45:46 PM

Capitalism: the more your life improves, the more the lives of others improves.

Liberalism: to improve their own lives, other seek to diminish yours.

I'm good with a divorce from the libs. If it comes to pass, I wish all the libs a great time in North Cuba!

Posted by Brett Rogers (http://www.beatcanvas.com), 7/15/2009 4:35:43 PM

How sad that it's come down to pithy little digs around here. Hope y'all have a good time stroking each other.

Posted by Bella, 7/15/2009 4:59:58 PM

North Cuba. Too funny. Or scary. LOL. With MaoBama at the helm.

This is why the pinheads we elect really need to read these bills being rammed down our throats http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/16/does-obamacare-outlaw-private-insurance/ .

Posted by Pale Rider, 7/16/2009 9:11:44 AM