My Suggestion for Solving the Recession

The government wants to bail people out of their problems. It does this by taking your tax money and giving to people in crisis or to people who made poor choices. The Senate, for example, allotted $10 billion to refinance subprime loans.

This would be unnecessary if people had the money to simply pay the mortgage to which they agreed. Using tax money only requires more taxes from the working anyway, and since we're bailing out the very people who pay taxes in the first place, it's kind of a dumb idea. But that's government for you.

How do you get people to be willing to work harder / work more to pay what they owe? How about telling everyone who works a second job that the income they get from that job, for the time being, is tax free. You keep 100% of it. It's exempt.

I think that would motivate the economy pretty well. It would stimulate job growth (more people productively working = more income = more people spending money = more jobs needed). It doesn't cost us anything from our current tax revenue. It's an efficient solution the government can offer.

by Brett Rogers, 4/26/2008 2:04:31 PM
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Great idea but it will never work. It's just easier to tax those responsible people who pay their mortgage and bills.

Posted by Rush Nigut (www.rushonbusiness.com), 4/28/2008 9:19:01 PM

I like the out of the box thinking here. Very creative and would be a much better step than these stimulus checks. I wouldn't say it would never work, but we'll never get a chance to find out because government would rather throw money at a problem instead of addressing the real issue.

Fiscal responsibility and personal accountability are concepts the government are clueless on. Get yourself into a mortgage you and your lender knew you could never afford long term? Don't worry, Uncle Sam is here. Economy slowing down due to skyrocketing oil prices? We'll give you a little of your tax payment back while not addressing any of the core issues. To top it off lets further drive up the cost of food/goods by pushing biofuels such as ethanol (which isn't even available where I live).

Boys and girls repeat after me. To Uncle Sam, "Thank you sir, may I have another."

Get used to it, in time it will replace the pledge of allegiance.

Posted by Pale Rider, 4/29/2008 8:47:33 AM

And how does ethanol drive up the cost of food?

I guess continued dependance on foreign oil is better than the renewable sources we currently have available?

I, for one, think not.

Posted by I.C. Narrowminds, 4/29/2008 8:59:51 AM

Thanks Rush and PR. I'm gonna keep pushing it.

And Narrow - you've heard of the law of supply and demand, right? Corn used to sell for around $2.00 and $2.50 per bushel. Today, corn sells for over $6 per bushel. Why? Increased demand to supply ethanol plants. And when farmers enjoy those prices for corn, they forego planting other crops, like soybeans. Which lowers the supply of soybeans and drives that price up as well.

Posted by Brett Rogers (http://www.beatcanvas.com), 4/29/2008 9:30:34 AM

HA! That is so over-simplified that I just have to chuckle. If it's so easy and the farmers "enjoy" these high prices, maybe we should all go be farmers? Now, THAT, I'd like to see.

Posted by I.C. Narrowminds, 4/29/2008 10:47:38 AM

I hope it gets some traction Brett. Thinking like that actually solves problems.

I.C., google "ethanol impact on food prices" and you'll find a bunch of articles on the topic that back up Brett's comment.

I'm all for lowering the dependence on foreign oil. With China and India's economies growing rapidly the price will continue to rise until we cane reduce this dependence. Time to start tapping into ANWR, more offshore drilling on our coasts, getting every state on the same blends of fuel (I'm fine with picking the cleanest), building a few more refineries, and capping federal and state taxes on gasoline at say $2 a gallon. Toss in Iraq paying for part of our costs of being over there with oil as well.

Instead we get a recommendation from McCain for the suspension of the federal gas tax from Memorial Day to Labor Day. Yeah that will help, especially if a hurricane hits the gulf.

Posted by Pale Rider, 4/29/2008 11:22:44 AM

Narrow, it's the wealth of facts you bring to the table that make your comments so interesting.

Posted by Brett Rogers (http://www.beatcanvas.com), 4/29/2008 11:31:02 AM

Thanks - it's the lack of acknowledgement that you/PR could ever be even slightly off the mark that makes your comments so interesting. Hence, the "IC Narrowminds" moniker.

Name any topic in the universe and I can Google it and find overwhelming arguments on both sides of it. So, if you think that makes PR more wealthy in facts, ok then.

Clearly you both know very little about agriculture, $6 corn is not making farmers rich. And, ethanol has a plethora of benefits that maybe PR should "Google"

Posted by I.C. Narrowminds, 4/29/2008 12:27:47 PM

Narrow, persuade me with a factual argument instead of sitting in the corner throwing the equivalent of spitballs. Name-calling is cute, but holds little substance.

PR and I choose to look into an issue, gather the facts we can find, and then choose the direction we think is best. We can then cite our known facts and talk to the point we make. I welcome you to do the same. Convince me. It wouldn't be the first time that someone here has changed my mind about something because they brought forward facts and convinced me with their argument.

So here's a question, and I would love to hear facts in your answer: are farmers making more or less money when corn is $2.50 per bushel or when it is $6.00 per bushel? If they're making more money, is the word "enjoy" an inappropriate usage in this context? Because I never said that I knew anything about agriculture or asserted that farmers are rich. I simply agreed with PR that ethanol raises the price of food.

Posted by Brett Rogers (http://www.beatcanvas.com), 4/29/2008 2:11:25 PM

Therein lies the reason why you can't be persuaded.

"Are farmers making more or less money when corn is $2.50 per bushel or when it is $6.00 per bushel?"

That's like saying does GM make more money by selling 50 cars or 100 cars? The answer is, it depends. If the cost of steel, tires, electronics all double or triple, they maybe were making more money selling 50 with lower input costs than selling 100 with higher input costs.

Look at the price of land, of seed to plant, of fertilizer, of equipment, of diesel fuel to run the equipment, of LP used to dry the crop, etc. It's not so cut/dry as to say $6/bushel corn makes more money than $2.50/bushel does. At $8,000/acre for land vs. $2,000/acre for land, it's not so simplistic. Now, if yield potential had increase 4x, then maybe, but it hasn't.

To PR's suggestion, if you want to know the benefits/facts of ethanol, Google it. PR has stated no facts whatsoever. He has made opiniated statements and suggest that you "google it" to find your own answers.

Posted by I.C. Narrowminds, 4/29/2008 4:39:42 PM

C'mon - let's go apples to apples, shall we? Comparing the price at which an item sells is not the same as comparing it to the quantity sold.

Does GM make more money selling a Chevy Lumina at $25,000 per car or at $60,000 per car? The answer, to which I think you're alluding, is that it depends. What are the costs of production? Good question, but it wasn't what I said.

I said that farmers plant more corn than beans today because they gravitate toward the higher profit potential in corn, which raises the cost of food for both the greater demand in corn due to ethanol and the limited supply of beans. To bolster that, I'll give a reference:

While Beaty is planting about 80 percent corn and 20 percent soybeans, Jimmy Ayers, another Rochester area farmer, is opting for a 75/25 ratio.

Ayers, who like Beaty is optimistic about the coming year, said he planted a similar ratio last year. About five years ago, he was closer to 60/40 corn versus beans.

Is your argument that ethanol has no effect on the price of food? I've brought some facts to the table. How about you bring facts to the table and prove that ethanol has no effect on the price of food, Narrow? Convince me.

Posted by Brett Rogers (http://www.beatcanvas.com), 4/29/2008 5:29:35 PM

Narrow, the question wasn't "what are the benefits of ethanol." You asked "how does ethanol drive up the cost of food?" My (and Brett's) response to that was specific and I gave a simple reference to show why I came to that conclusion. If you disagree tell me what to google to counter this within the scope of what you asked. If you want to discuss the benefits of ethanol fine, ask a question on that before you go off on a tangent and attack based on your own false assumptions.

Now let's see here. You've implied I'm narrow minded and called me opinionated. I'd say your batting .500 there as I am quite opinionated but at the same time very open minded. If you'd take the time to ask instead of attack you might see that.

It is quite arrogant to come into a blog with a name like I.C. Narrowminds. You see what you want to see and if someone counters you you attack and change the subject instead of engaging in the discussion. What would you say about someone that does that? Me, I'd say "asshat." That's just my opinion though and I'm happy to share it being so opinionated.

GM makes money? :D

Posted by Pale Rider, 4/29/2008 5:30:45 PM

My youngest sister and her husband farm here in Iowa. I just got off the phone with her and to paraphrase her words... "It's nice to have a profit and not have to borrow money to plant next years crop, for a change". So yes, farmers (at least my sister) are making more with $6 corn than they were with $2 corn. Not sure a call to her was needed since it seems like a no brainer.

She also said they were planiting both corn and beans (2:1 ratio) this year in anticipation of a higher demand for beans since more and more farmers are planting corn. Supply and demand, ya know. ;)

Anyhow, no googles were used in the making of this post. Only real facts from a real farmer.

Posted by Kelly, 4/29/2008 5:36:30 PM

Excellent reference, Kelly. Gotta love facts, especially from the source.

Posted by Brett Rogers (http://www.beatcanvas.com), 4/30/2008 7:44:57 AM

Kelly, that was just a great post. :)

Posted by Pale Rider, 4/30/2008 10:03:11 AM